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impossybull

New damage discussion

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Posted (edited)

My suggestions: (In graph, orange is suggested unsilenced, yellow is suggested silenced)

M4A1 - begin damage drop at 20/10 meters instead of 35/25, otherwise it is too much like the AK47.
AK47 - need more recoil IMHO to offset the huge damage.
K10 - too strong at long range IMO. I'd make it like a 8 shot kill b/c it's basically a machine pistol
AK12 - I'd set the AK12 and AK47 to a similar minimum damage.

 

L96A1 - this gun doing 120 damage to the cheat is too weak IMO because it can be evaded with Extra Health. So I suggest that it does 140-120 damage, and the suppressed version does 120-100.
M107 - snipers tend to have a weird feel when their damage drops quickly, so I changedthe M107 from 80-60 to 80-70
M110 - good.

 

KSG12 - Gains a niche of being potent at point blank range; mid range damage increased, to make it viable.
DAO12 - Most people like using shotguns at mid-range, not close range, so I changed mid-range damage to be not terrible.
Idk why these got nerfed. Especially the DAO which just does too little damage. Obviously DAO should not do crazy damage at long range, but that it is a 5 pellet kill (of 7) up close does not seem balanced when there are full auto asault rifles that are a 2 shot kill up close. I would like to try out shotguns with a significant buff, because they have never been used much, except for people trying to challenge themselves.  If I'm playing against noobs I will often use the KSG because it takes so long to kill people, especially when people are behind cover. If I want a 1-shot-kill weapon at close range, I will go for M107 no attachemnts. 😄

 

MG4 - made a 6 shot kill at range instead of a 10 shot kill.
AUG - good.

 

Deagle - good at close range but a 4 shot kill in HC at long range seems too many. 2 chest shots at long range seems alright, considering the high recoil and low fire rate.
USP - way too weak at long range. It is the second most powerful pistol so 5 shots in HC does not seem unreasonable.
Uzi - a 10 shot kill at range in HC seems too much. I'd do 6, b/c it is already very inaccurate at range.
G22 - good. It needed a nerf anyway.
P99 - 8 shots in HC. I'd do 6.

 

Additionally, I would change the "Normal" game mode to have a 1.2x multiplier like before, b/c guns are just too weak and having a 3x headshot multiplier seems overpowered.

 

image.thumb.png.f61d05d933337a98ae5b431d0089cb6f.png

 

Edited by impossybull
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I pretty much agree with all of this lol. i especially think the l96 needs a buff though because atm its practically impossible to get a one shot kill with the influx or random/new players every other day.

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Yes, but a shot to the arms or lower legs they would still survive at 70 base damage. Not many people have neither the noob HP bonus, nor access to the Extra Health perk. In sniper battles people would always run Extra Health to be an almost-guaranteed two-shot.

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When you make suggestions, take 100 HP as damage to kill. Extra health will be adjusted...
I think we will use smaller multipliers:
Head = 1.5 (hardcore 2)
Torso, upper arms = 1 (hardcore 1.2)
Legs and lower arms 0.8 (hardcore 1)
and damage system closer to standards (other AAA games).

It will be easier for us and better for players.

 

At this moment i am trying to understand distances at which weapon should lose effectivity.... pistols/shotguns should not compete with rifles at mid/far range. And "king" at far distance must be sniper rifle.
I will have to increase recoil on all AR's to make them less effective at distance. In this case damage can stay higher, since it will be harder to land bullet.

 

 

EDIT: Normal mode with new multipliers...

Let's say for AR's damage can be between 20-30 without strong fall (if any drop). It means around 3-4 bullets to kill (upper-body/head).
For L96A1 damage can be around 70 (without drop). Since we don't have huge maps, damage can be same at any range.
For M107 can be around 80.
Shotguns... maybe damage should stay the same since at mid/far distance you will land few pellets at most and damage will be low anyway.

 

Actually this "damage drop" over-complicates everything.
We can use damage drop only when it's necessary.

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So, I would not compare bullets to kill directly with other AAA titles because of a few reasons:

- Inaccuracy over sustained fire

- Most guns have slower fire rates than other games. For example, COD has its AR's shoot at 700-950 RPM, and SMG's shoot 700-1200 RPM. MW3's ACR shot at 705 RPM but was a 3-4 body shot kill, and was very accurate. The FAD shot at 1000 RPM and was a 4 body shot kill at any range, but had moderate recoil. If, say, the AK47 in SW is a 4-5 body shot kill and shoots at 575 RPM, the game will play much slower by this comparison alone.

- Movement is more arcade-y here even compared to other FPS games with arcade-y movement, which makes it harder to stay on target.

Because of these factors, the damage that opponents take per second is lower than similar games. Already, people play Hardcore mode 80% of the time; I don't think most people would like lowering the multipliers to make it even more like Normal mode.

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Fast time to kill makes all weapons very similar (from damage view).

"people play Hardcore mode 80% of the time", because all weapons have damage drop-off and at mid/far distance it took too many shots to kill.

IF we will not use damage drop-off, but ONLY different multipliers, then time to kill will be lower, but it will not be 10 hits to kill...

 

"Movement is more arcade-y here even compared to other FPS games with arcade-y movement, which makes it harder to stay on target"

what? "harder to stay on target" when more arcade movement?

By the way i asked if you want more advanced/physics based movement, but i didn't get any support... seems that everyone here likes current movement.

 

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I don't think getting rid of the damage drop off is the best way to go, because then it would be hard to balance things such that the snipers are better at long range.

 

Maybe it could be something like:

- Secondaries, DAO12, KSG12, K10: short range & fast drop off

- AK47 and M4A1: medium range and drop off

- AUG and AK12: long range & slow drop off

- Snipers and M249: no drop off

 

I like the current movement but it is faster and "bouncier" than other games I have played, is what I meant.

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7 hours ago, impossybull said:

My suggestions: (In graph, orange is suggested unsilenced, yellow is suggested silenced)

M4A1 - begin damage drop at 20/10 meters instead of 35/25, otherwise it is too much like the AK47.
AK47 - need more recoil IMHO to offset the huge damage.
K10 - too strong at long range IMO. I'd make it like a 8 shot kill b/c it's basically a machine pistol
AK12 - I'd set the AK12 and AK47 to a similar minimum damage.

 

L96A1 - this gun doing 120 damage to the cheat is too weak IMO because it can be evaded with Extra Health. So I suggest that it does 140-120 damage, and the suppressed version does 120-100.
M107 - snipers tend to have a weird feel when their damage drops quickly, so I changedthe M107 from 80-60 to 80-70
M110 - good.

 

KSG12 - Gains a niche of being potent at point blank range; mid range damage increased, to make it viable.
DAO12 - Most people like using shotguns at mid-range, not close range, so I changed mid-range damage to be not terrible.
Idk why these got nerfed. Especially the DAO which just does too little damage. Obviously DAO should not do crazy damage at long range, but that it is a 5 pellet kill (of 7) up close does not seem balanced when there are full auto asault rifles that are a 2 shot kill up close. I would like to try out shotguns with a significant buff, because they have never been used much, except for people trying to challenge themselves.  If I'm playing against noobs I will often use the KSG because it takes so long to kill people, especially when people are behind cover. If I want a 1-shot-kill weapon at close range, I will go for M107 no attachemnts. 😄

 

MG4 - made a 6 shot kill at range instead of a 10 shot kill.
AUG - good.

 

Deagle - good at close range but a 4 shot kill in HC at long range seems too many. 2 chest shots at long range seems alright, considering the high recoil and low fire rate.
USP - way too weak at long range. It is the second most powerful pistol so 5 shots in HC does not seem unreasonable.
Uzi - a 10 shot kill at range in HC seems too much. I'd do 6, b/c it is already very inaccurate at range.
G22 - good. It needed a nerf anyway.
P99 - 8 shots in HC. I'd do 6.

 

Additionally, I would change the "Normal" game mode to have a 1.2x multiplier like before, b/c guns are just too weak and having a 3x headshot multiplier seems overpowered.

 

image.thumb.png.f61d05d933337a98ae5b431d0089cb6f.png

 

You mentioned that silencers would decrease gun damage, but I think that this cold make silencers unused. So I suggest to add 2 or 3 at the range of the weapon when using a silencer.

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Suppressor removes pretty much half of sound distance + no tracers. Decrease of damage/range is required to balance attachment.

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