Progression system suggestions

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Progression system suggestions

Post by impossybull » 11 May 2019

OMA, I read that you're planning to add rank unlocks into the game. I'm just making this post to state my opinions and reasoning for what might be a good strategy.

Tenet # 1: Ranking up is slow in this game, compared to other games. So, there needs to be an unlock every rank.
Tenet # 2: Guns > Perks > Camos. Some basic guns need to be unlocked soon, then some perks, then some redundant guns. Finally, camos should be last (or concurrent).

In this system:
The player, in each rank up to rank 10, unlocks a new gun (or 2), a new perk, and a new attachment, so players will not have to wait too long to unlock items.
The player unlocks the most diverse variety of guns by rank 3.
Different types of guns are spread out, both in type and power. New players do not have to rank up all the way to unlock the best weapons.
To increase the amount of unlocks, camos only unlock starting after every weapon has been unlocked.

Suggested ranking:
0: AK47, Deagle, Reticule-customizable reflex, Suppressor 1, Extra Health
• Starts out with 2 popular weapons, the most fun optic, a suppressor, and the noobiest perk.
1: L96A1, G22, Sniper scope, Extended Mag
2: M249, Uzi, Circle scope, Crosshair
• The player unlocks a whole new class for the first 2 ranks.
3: KSG, Holographic sight, Sprinter
• By now the player has almost every type of primary, and every type of secondary. The four above perks are some of the most popular, and the friendliest to noobs.
4: K10, P99, Suppressor 2, Regeneration
5: M107, Lambda scope, Strong Arms
6: AUG, Circle reflex, Fast Hands
7: DAO-12, Delta scope, Move Faster ADS
8: M4A1, Thermal scope, Low Gravity
9: M110, USP .45, Suppressor 3, Extra Nade
• Annoying perks like Low Gravity and Extra Nade aren't unlocked right away.
10: AK12, Lambda reflex [Edit: and Pistol reflex], Silent footsteps
• From now on, only camos (and sprays) will unlock, as they are purely cosmetic.
• Snowy camos:
11: White Digital (M107, G22, USP)
12: Black and White Tiger (AK47, Deagle)
13: Arctic Blue (L96)
• Desert camos:
14: Orange-Red (K10)
15: Tan Digital (AUG)
16: Yellow Tiger (M107)
17: Brown Stripe (P99)
• Woodland camo:
18: ERDL (DAO-12)
• Show off camos, ordered by uniqueness and how many camos have already been unlocked on a weapon.
19: Desert (AUG)
20: Arctic Blue-Grey (L96)
21: Blue Tiger (M249)
22: Black and White Stripe (M110, G22)
23: Black Tiger (Deagle)
24: Red Tiger (M249)
25: Green Tiger (M107)
26: Hex (AK47)
27: Dot (M110)
28: Bloodshot (Deagle)
29: Silver (AUG)
30: GOLD (Deagle) <-- Not in the game right now, but if you send me the existing Deagle texture, I could recolor it to be gold :)
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Post by OneManArmy » 11 May 2019

For your idea to work (multiple unlocks per rank), we need 10 times more content. It will take time to add....
At this moment we must fill all 100 ranks and then additional content will be added to these 100 ranks (like secondary unlock for every rank).

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14


P.S. why now content is locked under progression?
Purpose of locking content under progression is to keep player/you engaged => add some depth to the game.
When everything is unlocked from beginning, player loses interest very fast, because he quickly tries everything and interest is lost.

Now you can see if attachments are available:
unlocks.jpg

And if perk is locked, you can see required rank to unlock:
perks.jpg
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Post by SeekerS » 11 May 2019

Hi
I think Ranks 0 should start with standard weapon, and apois rank 10 starts unlocking, it takes 3 days to get to rank 10, so you would reach high rank with some goal of unlocking some things.
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Post by litenite » 11 May 2019

This sounds like a cool idea. Obviously more content will be required, but I def feel this will a new layer to the game like you suggested OMa! LMK if you ever need a guinea pig, you could reset me to rank 0 if you want someone to try it out. Just lmk beforehand, so i don't log in and go O.o lol
Let me LITE your NITE :):
http://bit.ly/liteniteGamingYT
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Post by impossybull » 11 May 2019

I understand your idea that stuff needs to keep being unlocked for a while, as is the purpose, of course, of an unlock system. However, we are not Call of Duty, Battlefield, etc.; since we need to attract new players, we shouldn't have it where things are locked behind 10's - 100's of hours of play. Some statistics to backup my opinion:

I don't know how many players are registered for the game, but the forum has almost 4000 users, and the most viewed SkillWarz video on YouTube has over 11000 views. However, out of all these people, only 122 have reached Rank 30, the end of my progression system, and only 29 have reached Rank 55, the last attachment on your progression system.

Players tend to average 240 score per kill (including Bonus XP, etc) so to reach even rank 10 (unlocking everything except camos and sprays, on mine) is 770 kills, which could easily be 50 games for a new player. To reach Rank 30 is over 6 times that amount. Considering that as-so-far we've never had a progression system, the as-of-now top 122 players are certainly playing for enjoyment, obviously not because they are focused on progression. I would personally have a progression system that is noob-friendly, to help increase the playerbase.

I do understand why you've drawn your progression system out across as many ranks as possible, but considering that noobs already have a bit of a hard time, because (duh) they're noobs, it is my opinion that making it take so long to unlock things would drive people away more than it makes them more addicted. :)

Also, in every FPS I've played, weapons are locked behind progression also, which is why I put them in my ladder. They should be unlocked early, though, so the noobs are really not at a disadvantage. It always feels cool to unlock a brand new weapon, even if it's not really any better than the last weapon. For example, the AK47 and AK12 are almost the same gun, but I unlock the AK47 at 0 and the AK12 at 10, so it feels special, even if the rank 10 unlock gun is no better than the rank 0 unlock gun.

Finally, the solution that many games use to counter this exact problem (early unlocks vs. long-term engagement) is some type of Prestige/Legacy system which unlocks once you have reached the highest rank. It is optional, for players dedicated to the game. You keep all statistics, etc. but your rank resets to 0 so you can rank up again. In return, you get a cool emblem, or sometimes another unlock. If this were to be implemented (we could change the name), I'd propose having prestige at Rank 30, then have 30 Prestige ranks. This sounds like a lot, but it is the same as Rank 100 currently. This would also solve the annoyance of ranking up at a snail's pace once you get into the 30's-50's. (Example of Prestiging: https://youtu.be/YudFoAz099g?t=274)
Then also we could have Prestige unlocks, for what exist in the high ranks:
Prestige 1: Blue Clan Tag
Prestige 3: Red Clan Tag
Prestige 6: Green Clan Tag
Prestige 30: Gold Clan Tag
If you like this modification, then I could get you some Prestige icons for the ranks, or it could just be a number beside the normal rank (for people that have prestiged), i.e. litenite 26 (4), meaning Rank 26, 4th prestige, or examplenoob 2, since they have not prestiged.
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Post by OneManArmy » 12 May 2019

Then maybe i should adjust "overall xp" and "xp from rank to rank"?
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16
At this moment rank 100 is 34,5 mil. XP
I can reduce to around 15 mil.

30 ranks is definitely not enough...
i have to think about this "Prestige"...

Now i am very busy with one important change in game (head is full...), so after few days i will think about ranks/unlocks...
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Post by impossybull » 12 May 2019

Thanks. I've always thought that the ranking up system was too slow, but since it was not important before, I did not mention it. For comparison, in Black Ops 3 Prestige Master ranks, 34,530,000 XP gets you to rank ~595, whereas here is 100.

I won't sketch anything specific until I know your (and other people's) opinions on this, but a good compromise could be something like:
  • Have 50 ranks per prestige.
  • Each rank in new system takes half the XP of the old system. Old rank 34 ~= New rank 50. This is so that players will feel like they are progressing at a normal rate. For example, in Call of Duty 4, there is 1,202,800 XP in 55 ranks. In Black Ops 3, there is 1,457,500 XP in 55 ranks. With this, we will have 1,415,000 XP in 50 ranks. P.S. In this system, it would work out to have 25 prestiges = current rank 100.
  • Use a system in between OMA's, viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14, and mine, scaled to 50 ranks. If we took OMA's system, added some gun unlocks, and weighted the unlocks so that Guns are mostly unlocked first (since they are most valuable), then perks, then attachments, then camos and sprays mostly being last (since they do not help the player and are only for show-off), I think it could work really well.
Thanks for taking a look at this and good luck with whatever else you're doing in game :)
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Post by impossybull » 01 Jun 2019

Some more about Prestige mode (If implemented):

Also, as an example only, let's use the existing ranks, with prestige after rank 30. So it would take 1,220,000 XP. In reality, the rank system should be changed in the first place (see above comments).

So normally in a Prestige rank system, you have unlocked everything of importance once you get to the highest Rank, and Prestige ranks are just for show-off. The question is how to implement it into the game. The instinctive solution is to just bump everybody into the prestige rank that they would have been had they chosen to always prestige, example:

litenite with 6061614 XP: Old rank: 74 + 151614 XP, New rank: Prestige 4, Rank 30 + 26614 XP

However, this would present the problem of that some people could be bumped into a low rank, even at a high prestige, and need to unlock everything again, which someone may not want to do. For example, if someone had 1220001 XP, they would have old rank 30, new prestige 1, rank 0 and would have to unlock everything again.

So here is a solution:
Any player with less XP than 1 Prestige, continues progression like normal. They STOP gaining XP when Prestige is unlocked (normal, how Prestige system works).

Any player with more XP than 1 Prestige, stops earning XP immediately and is max rank Prestige 0, but their old XP is saved. These players will then have the option to Prestige, once they do, their rank will increase to the amount of XP remaining. Example:

impossybull with 3946667 XP: Old rank 60 + 36667 XP.
After update, Rank 30, 0th Prestige, but I'll have 3946667 - 1220000 = 2726667 XP "left" to immediately be able to Prestige.
I Prestige once, and "use" 1220000 XP, so now I'm rank 30 Prestige 1 with 1506667 XP "left"
--> Prestige 2, rank 30, 286667 XP left,
Then if I prestige again, I'll be Prestige 3, Rank 13 + 6667 XP.

Just to clarify, the normal operation of Prestige is:
Reach max rank, and unlock Prestige, and stop earning XP
Prestige whenever you want
No matter how much you have played since unlocking Prestige, when you Prestige, you gain one Prestige rank but you are at Rank 0 now.

This system just lets the people with high ranks not lose their progress, but at the same time not be forced into Prestiging if they do not want to.
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Post by OneManArmy » 15 Jun 2019

So, this Prestige is optional, right?
If you choose to go Prestige , your rank gets reset.
- whats with score(xp)?
- wahts with unlocked content?
- where you can see this Prestige "icon"?

By the way these weapons can be added in progression unlocks:
ak47
ak12
k10
p99
M107
M110 SAAS
G22
DAO12
AUG-A3
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Post by impossybull » 15 Jun 2019

I.) What I am talking about above is to avoid the problems of:
1) Having high ranked players be downgraded to Prestige 0, max rank
2) Having high ranked players be the highest prestige that they could have been, but a potentially low rank somewhere in that prestige.

With what I described above, it gives those players the option of what they would want to do.

That being said, if you don't want to implement that, the best solution in my opinion would just be to bump everyone up to the highest prestige and rank that they could have gotten based on their already-earned XP.

Then in the future when someone reaches the max rank in a prestige, they stop earning XP towards ranking up, because they are already at the max rank, and now have only the option to prestige. (Additional XP earned should probably still go toward's that player's lifetime score, though.)

II.) Content unlocked through regular ranking-up is locked again after prestige just as if someone started the game brand new. The only exception is things that are unlocked specifically by prestiging. As of now, you'd probably only want these to be clan tag colors, because all weapons and perks, and most camos should be unlocked in regular progression. The idea behind Prestige is that it is supposed to be "extra", and that just ranking up to the max rank earns you everything important. And of course the challenge is that you must start from the beginning every time you Prestige.

III.) It could be something as simple as this: (I used Roman numerals, Algerian font)
Image
Of course ranks would also be different :D

P.S. Weapon list looks good 👍
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