Ideas to stop spawnkilling

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Ideas to stop spawnkilling

Post by blasterant » 17 Jul 2019

Spawnkilling is used massively in this game because a lot of players cares about their kda and are ready to play unfairly against "weaker" players to have better stats. And it is not normal to have players who can go 36/10 while spawnkilling the entire game with his team and besides, the same player goes 10/12 while not spawnkilling, or playing against stronger players.

So to prevent that, you can:

-Put more invincibility time after spawning (I know we talk about this already but when you have only 2 seconds to kill 3 personnes in your spawn, its impossible)
-Remake some maps that are way too small with widely open spawns with no possibility to hide from ennemies.
-Not possible to be flashed during invincibility time
-More acces to leave the spawn and not just two so the ennemies can't control it to easily

Thats all for the moment
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Post by impossybull » 17 Jul 2019

I'd add immunity from friendly and enemy flash grenades and explosives shake first of all, and only increase invincibility time if these are not good enough. I hate to say it, but the main problem is map design. On some maps you would need 5-10 seconds of invincibility to escape a spawn trap (i.e. Maps 1, 2, 5, 7, 10, 11). Spawns should be easy to defend themselves. On maps 5, 10, and 11 the spawn can be defended relatively easily, but on maps 1, 2, and 7 the only thing separating the spawns is just a wall. These maps tend to have the worst spawn trapping, for obvious reasons already stated. The worst is maps like Map 2, 4, and 12 where people can just camp right in front of / above the spawn and the enemies just have no where to go.

This is a difficult issue for every game, and especially ones with small maps. Call of Duty has no spawn protection, but has movable/flippable spawns. However, just search "shipment spawn trap" or "nuketown demolition spawn trap" and you can see that even that superior model of spawn system does not always work well, to put it lightly.
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Post by sviseerd » 17 Jul 2019

impossybull wrote:
17 Jul 2019
I'd add immunity from friendly and enemy flash grenades and explosives shake first of all
Yes, this please
blasterant wrote:
17 Jul 2019
Put more invincibility time after spawning (I know we talk about this already but when you have only 2 seconds to kill 3 personnes in your spawn, its impossible)
Would be fine with this if protection also went off when the player moves too much distance.
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Post by Reeper » 17 Jul 2019

spawn killing is fun and if you want to stop being spawn killed. some smart players will wait in their spawns and outsmart the spawnkillers
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Post by impossybull » 17 Jul 2019

sviseerd wrote:
17 Jul 2019
blasterant wrote:
17 Jul 2019
Put more invincibility time after spawning (I know we talk about this already but when you have only 2 seconds to kill 3 personnes in your spawn, its impossible)
Would be fine with this if protection also went off when the player moves too much distance.
I had this idea also, but you would have to tailor it to each map. Maybe have an area with extended protection (like 8 seconds) plus 1 1/2 seconds after you leave the area. Think Prototype 2.

And I'm glad arn responded so we could hear from the expert :D
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Post by OneManArmy » 18 Jul 2019

By increasing protection time you will fix one problem, but you will ruin gameplay. Players want to attack/push (play aggressively).
If pushing close to spawn areas will be guaranteed death, then gameplay on all maps will be like on sniper map.

But is "spawn killing" such a big problem? I think it's part of gameplay... sometimes you are in strongest team and you are killing in spawn, sometimes you are in weakest team. If both teams don't have experienced players (or only one team has) than high possibility that there will be spawn killing.

Yes problem is also in map design.
While in AAA games team of experienced 3d artists/level designer spend from few weeks to few months on each map,
most of SW maps was created in 1-3 days.
Making "professional" maps would fix the problem, but
unfortunately we don't have here experienced level designers.

No, i will not increase spawn protection time. For some players 2 seconds is enough and for some even 10 will not be enough.
But i will add protection from flash nades and possibly against sentry guns/drones.
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Post by blasterant » 18 Jul 2019

"Spawnkilling is fun" hummm no. You can't play and it ruins the game, you are just here you kill someone but OH another ennemy was there too, so you die, you respawn, you die, you respawn, you die etc etc. So fun indeed.
"some smart players will wait in their spawns and outsmart the spawnkillers" As explained, some maps don't have stuctures to hide so you are "naked" and getting killed by players coming from all sides (right/left and even from above). And it happens all the time as team balance doesn't exist in this game, you have always all the best players in a team and all the mid/new players in the other one.
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Post by impossybull » 18 Jul 2019

Good idea OMA, I'm sure you remember that I suggested sentry gun protection before :D

I wouldn't add it for drones though, because they are single-use and just can't be spammed. Making extra protection doesn't make any sense, because you could get 10 spawn kills with a gun before you get a second drone. Sentries on the other hand.... (Video for those unfamiliar: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8MMMeD13iY)

Good spawn zones need to be, in order:
- Not having long sightlines look into them
- Easy to escape (so 1 person can't spawn trap a whole team)
- Have good internal visibility (so that one person can't roam/hide in it)
- Good defensability (as a last resort)

Maps need not have all 4 of these, but really need at least 3. However, as a map designer myself, I know map design is hard, so I don't want to just sound complain-y, just factual. I don't blame OMA at all for "things not being perfect" or something.
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Post by OneManArmy » 18 Jul 2019

Yes, problem is complex... and there is no simple fix.
As i wrote many, many, many, many times, core of ALL problems is small player base. Rooms are not full, players leave room and new players doesn't fill room immediately, what cause imbalance in teams all the time. We don't have auto-balance because i don't think that it will work correctly... again because of problems i mentioned above. All what auto balance can do is check if there is no critical imbalance.
But... even then complains will not stop. Less complains will be about "spawn killing", but more about "why AB moved ME to losing team".
Ah...
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Post by blasterant » 18 Jul 2019

I don't care to either win or lose, I play for fun. But people care too much about their stats. and it causes imbalances. What I hate and want to change, is the behaviour like you see in the video with sentry gun in the spawn, people camp literally in spawn's turrets and kill players who can't defend themselves. I don't know what is going on in their mind but it is wrong
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